Intermediate - Serious Goring

Hola todos, 

Pregunta del día: ¿Qué hay en las noticias hoy?

En Seattle suelo leer el Sea Latino.  Hoy en la edición de Seattle, sale una foto del vicegobernador del estado de Washington, que toca la guitarra y canta La bamba.

Oye, JP, por favor, platícame sobre la pronunciación de la palabra "seguir" en vocabulario.  ¿Qué está pasando con el "g" cuando lo dice Esti?

anna8

No sé si te ayuda pero “g” entre los vocales  es muy suave.  Aquí tienes un enlace.

http://www.studyspanish.com/pronunciation/letter_g.htm

Hola anna8!

stevestrv is right!  The default sound of the Spanish /g/ is a fricative.  This is different than the English /g/, which is occlusive. 

"Occlusive" means that the airflow stops completely.  "Fricative" means that the airflow in your mouth manages to keep flowing. 

So to make the Spanish /g/ sound, you can make the English /g/ sound but don't let your tongue totally close off the airflow.  You should be able to sustain a fricative /g/ for as long as their is breath in your lungs. 

Of course, at the beginning of a sentence or after a breath, the Spanish /g/ becomes occlusive (i.e., just like in English). 

My explanation would probably be better on a  Pa' que sepas.... ;)

Jp anna8

I heard that in some regional accents the g between vowels, like in the word agua, is so soft it almost disappears. Is this true?

stevestrv,

I usually don't pronounce that /g/,  I usually dont' pronounce the /g/s in Guatemala, or guacamole either. 

Liliana, Esti, and Leo all pronounce those /g/s.

I'm pretty sure that the reason is regional; the costal/mountain distinction I've talked about before. 

Of course, I've spent the last year at the same desk as these folks, so my pronounciation is changing...

Hola, JP, de estado WA & gracias por la sitio Web el Sea Latino de Seattle.  Vivo en Bellingham pero no he encontrado esta sitio antes...feliz tenerlo.

JP

Thank you

Awesome, I never realized that, I thought it was just "soft" of sorts.  Thanks for the explanation  :)

This follows the same pattern as the B/V and the D sounds then.  Makes sense...  Is there any other sound that follows this pattern?  I can't think of any...

Is your pronunciation changing at all on your part, or is it happening totally unintentially?  Can you switch accents/put on an accent very easily?  If so, which kinds can you do?  (I'm assuming Standard, and perhaps Mexican?  The one you learnt of course...)

Thanks stevestrv and JP,

I knew about initial g's in Guatemala, etc, and had also noticed it in intervocalic position in luego and agua in particular, but Esti's seguir was striking because my ear really didn't recognize it as that word.  Leo pronounces the same word somewhere else in this lesson and my ear recognizes the g and therefore the word.

I have to tell you that this site has really sensitized me to subtle aspects of pronunciation in Spanish.  Many years ago, I took a graduate seminar where we had to describe the phonology of an unknown language by eliciting it from a native speaker.  (The language turned out to be Thai and our "informant" was an exchange student with a great sense of humor!)  Anyway, with the wonderful variety of voices here and JP as resident linguist, I find myself listening as attentively as I did back then.  This is so much more than I ever expected to find!  Thank you all!

Estamos pensando enviar a nuestea correspondal Belén Ruiz de corresponsal a otros países de América Latina.

I apologize for posing my question in English but I am too impatient to fool with all that <alt> business on my English keyboard.

You translated the phrase ha tenido que ser as "he had to have". If I had been given the assignment to translate in the other direction (English to Spanish), I would have said había tenido que ser. Can you explain the distinction between the two forms. I have read this repeatedly in my 501 but it seems I still haven't gotten it. Thanks.

mjohncoady y mis otras amigos,

In Windows, just set up a Spanish Keyboard layout.

You can then rotate between installed keyboards by pressing the "shift left alt" combination

ñÑ replaces the ;: key (they move to above the , and .) and the quote key becomes the accent key ´ ¨

to use an accent, hit the accent key and then a vowel and the vowel will be accented.
áÁéÉíÍóÓúÚ or ä etc...

If you hit any other key say a consonant like t or a space, the accent will appear and then the consonant or space.

¡¿ are also available on the keyboard.

To switch languages or keyboards from the taskbar
Open Regional and Language Options in Control Panel.
On the Languages tab, under Text services and input languages, click Details.
Under Preferences, click Language Bar.
In the Language Bar Settings dialog box, select the Show additional Language bar icons in the Notification area check box.
Click OK three times.
Click the language icon or the keyboard icon on the taskbar to display a menu.
Click a language or keyboard.
Notes

To open Regional and Language Options, click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel, and then double-click Regional and Language Options.
The language icon is available only if you have added multiple languages or multiple keyboard layouts in Regional and Language Options in Control Panel.
When inserting text, you can use the keyboard, speech recognition, or handwriting recognition interchangeably without clicking a button.
The letters on the taskbar icon represent the active language. For example, EN stands for English, ES stands for español, SV stands for Svenska..
If you are using a tablet computer, you can use Tablet PC Input Panel for handwriting and speech tasks. For more information about Input Panel, click Related Topics.

Spanish (Spain)

Spanish keyboard layout
Image forbidden 540px × 180px is too big for this forum, follow the link below to see the keyboard layout.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/KB_Spanish.svg/540px-KB_Spanish.svg.png
* The Spanish (Spain) keyboard layout also includes characters required for typing the Catalan language: Ç, the grave accent and interpunct (punt volat, used in l·l) at Shift-3.

Spanish (Latin America)

Latin American Spanish keyboard layout
Image forbidden 540px × 180px is too big for this forum, follow the link below to see the keyboard layout.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/KB_Latin_American.svg/540px-KB_Latin_American.svg.png

* The Spanish (Latin America) keyboard layout is used throughout Central and South America, but the use of the Spanish (Spain) layout is also not uncommon due to many Operating Systems defaulting to the Spanish (Spain) layout when the user selects Spanish as the default language (GNU/Linux) or installing the Spanish version (Windows).

Swedish/Finnish

Swedish/Finnish keyboard layout
Image forbidden 540px × 180px is too big for this forum, follow the link below to see the keyboard layout.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/KB_Sweden.svg/540px-KB_Sweden.svg.png

More at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout

Buena Suerte.

Bonne chance.

Lycka till.

Good luck.

Cobre

Anna8

You mentioned the word Guatemala.  I would like to point out that the rules on how the pronunciation of a letter is effect by it surroundings letters is valid across words.  For example, I believe that the "G" in Guatemala is pronounced differently when you say Soy de Guatemala (the G is between vowels) than when you say Estoy en Guatemala (following an n and followed by a u).  Of course if there is a pause between the words, it removes the influence that a letter in one word has on a letter in the other.  Obviously we can’t consciously think of the all the rules that effect pronunciation when speaking.  I guess I am just trying to learn the different pronunciations and hope that subconsciously I will learn to use the right one when speaking.  Must of these rules of pronunciation have evolved because they make it easier to speak so hopefully it will come naturally.  If anyone disagrees with any of this please let me know.

mjohncoady:

I looked in the translation and, unless they changed it, they translated the phrase ha tenido que ser as "he has had to have".  You missed the word "has" earlier.

This is a direct translation.  Has had = ha tenido

Your question about "había tenido que ser", in this case había tenido = had had, so "he had had to have".

Yeah I agree with you totally, stevestvr.  If you say Estoy en Guatemala, the "n" in "en" causes you to close your throat and therefore the "g" in guatemala becomes plosive, such as saying it after a pause.

I believe I'm using the word plosive correctly, but not 100% on that....

mjohncody,

Interesting question!  This is really an English question; the Spanish is what it is.

The whole verb phrase is: ha tenido que ser operado, which is kind of a tangle of present perfect, tener+que+infinitive (obligation construction), and true passive. The conjugated verb is tener, but the content verb is operar--so don't leave operar out of the equation! 

So the passive of "to operate" in English would be "to be operated on."  So a closer translation would be "he had to be operated on," which ends with a preposition, which somepeople frown...upon.  ;)

And then, you throw in de urgencia which indicates urgency, but I'm not sure how to incorporate that with "he had to be operated on." 

I guess I could have said "he had to be urgently operated on" but that doesn't sound good to me.  That's why I chose the paraphrase "he's had to have an emergency operation," which does sound more natural English. 

I realize it takes the learner a few logical steps to get from the Spanish version to my English paraphrase, but... those are the breaks!  :)   The more advanced you get in your Spanish learning, the more familiar you'll get with the fuzzy art of translation.  It's not always going to be cut-and-dry. 

At this level, you'll notice I tend go for the 'natural Englsih' version of the translation.  At lower levels, I spend more time explaining literal translations (like reflexive-as-passive, or gustar constructions). 

thesmithtopher,

ha ha, you said "plosive."  I usually say 'occlusive' or 'stop,' but yes, you used 'plosive' correctly!  :)

Cobre,

Thanks for the advice. Seems to work nicely.

Gracias. Parece que funciona perfectamente.

áéíóúñ

En el noticia hoy, ha habido un historia a cerca de un fuego en el estado Washington. Es cerca de el montana de Adams y la ciudad Trout Lake. Es grave. Que este momento, no hay mando del fuego. Pero, afortunadamento ninguna tiene herido.

¡Hola todos! Aqui hay Pajarito, el toro volador.

Pues, no puedo entender bien que dice a 1:00. Me parece que diga:

"A el se sumaron el rejoneador Felipe Vallina que provisto de un descabello sacrifico al astado en este sitio."

¿Es correcto? Pues, ¿el pobre Pajarito fue matado?

Que acontecimiento trágico para las personas sentadas en la primera fila. También me siento por el toro "Pajarito". Me pregunto si ese animal fue maltratado para se volvió tan loco.

Creo que tengo que corregirme: Me pregunto se ese animal fue maltratado para volverse tan loco.  

I am really having trouble with this lesson. The speaker talks so fast, it's just like the spanish channel. Which is great, but for some reason no matter how much I study this lesson, I can't make my brain keep up

nathanwagar,

Don't worry, it's normal not to understand everything! 

If listening to this dialog with the PDF transcript doesn't help, I recommed that you put this lesson aside for a while, study other things, and come back to it later.  That's the beauty of learning by podcast!