Going to the Market - Discussion

Lesson Introduction

You know what they say about an apple a day? Well, we buy apples and other fruit by the kilo. Whether you like the green apples or the red ones, this lesson will equip you to buy fruit and other items at the open air market.

Comments (40)

Team	jpvillanueva says SpanishPod Challenge This dialog ends with "no, that's all, thanks," but the transaction isn't over yet! What do you think the fruit vendor and customer say to each other next? You can answer in English; bonus points if you do it in Spanish... December 11, 2007 from the Web.

Team	estibalitz says A mi me gustan las manzanas verdes. I like the green apples. December 11, 2007 from the Web.

Team	lilianamata says A mi también me gustan más las manzanas verdes. December 11, 2007 from the Web.

sarcodon says

En castellano decímos habitualmente "un kilo de manzanas", en plural. Si son cosas incontables, en singular (ej., "un kilo de sal, tres litros de leche"), pero si son cosas individuales, en plural (ej., "quiero tres kilos de patatas y una docena de huevos").

December 12, 2007 from the Web.

user20401 says

So should it be "un kilo de manzana" or "un kilo de manzanas" since apples are countable ? Denis

December 12, 2007 from the Web.

oolung says

I'll take up the challenge! :) - Tambien quisiera una berenjena, por favor. - Lo siento, no las tengo. - Entonces me da un calabacin. - Tampoco los tengo. - Bueno, hay tomates? - No. - Entonces, hombre, que puedo comprar?! - ...Mas manzanas... Denis, it seems like it's a regional thing. When in Spain, we'll use the plural. In Latin America - the singular. Am I right, Spanishpod? :) And if we use the castellano version in Latin America, will people think we're speaking in castellano or will they assume our Spanish is very poor? (Probably depends on how we say everything else during the conversation... :))

December 12, 2007 from the Web.

yardbird says

I'd like to understand more about the opening line of the dialogue. I was surprised to hear the man terminate his very direct request for a kilo of apples with a rising question tone. I am thinking that maybe it's a wayy to combine giving a literally direct order with a pretend tone of uncertainty that contradicts the grammar for the sake of politeness, a kind of tonal negation, while leaving the utterance still mandatory grammatically so that the customer establishes his primacy. A delicate balance. Socially clever. In my American English, this would be unusual, although an observant person might suggest with some amusement that it resembles the rising end-tone with which many female speakers undermine themselves in American society by undercutting their positive statements by turning them into questions. This is a known phenomenon in American speech. Women who don't want to appear apologetic or subservient never do this, but others do. But otherwise you don't do this in English. You don't say "Give me a kilo of apples," and then lift into a questsioning tone to indicate that you don't mean to sound too rough or presumptuous. The impolite or hurried person, usually a male is the one to do this, will indeed say "Give me this, give me that." This is the kind of American male who isn't appreciated very much when he goes as a tourist to other countries. but if you want to ask nicely for something in this kind of situation, you change the locution. You say "May I please have a kilo of apples," or, less formally, "Can I have a kilo of apples," or "how about a kilo of apples?" and of course, the most straightforward way to make it a demand but soften it, without that rising tone, is simply to add "please." Give me a kilo of apples, please. That's a little stiff-sounding, but it works fine. So, am I guessing correctly? The question mark is the tonal equivalent of tacking on "please," without saying "por favor?" Is this more common to a particular country or region? Might you hear it in Mexico City but not in Buenos Aires, or vice versa?Thanks.

December 12, 2007 from the Web.

Team	estibalitz says In Spain we say: Un kilo de manzanaS, because it is a countable noun. December 12, 2007 from the Web.

yardbird says

¡Ay, caramba! Do I feel stupid! Believe it or not, I was shopping in my little neighborhood Korean produce market for verduras when I realized my error. Compré tomates, mushrooms, bananas (not plátanos) broccoli, lechuga,manzanas verdes, cebollas y ajo. Y mientras caminé a mi casa, llevando la bolsa pesa,it came to me. The above issue all has to do with word placement! It's something I've just begun to understand from other SpanishPod lessons. If I say "me da una manzana?" without any additional words or grammar, just the word order and the question mark, it *is* a polite question! But I listened to it and heard it as if it were the same as "Dame una manzana" or whatever. Un kilo de. But "Dame" *would* be an order, and would be rude in a situation like this. But that's not what he was saying. I am so slow sometimes. And just to prove to the experts that I know more about this particular grammar than it must seem, I know that while "me a" is the usted form compared to "me das," in the imperative example I gave, "Dame" is the usted form and Déme is the tu form. When I was a substitute teacher of English and ESL in the Los Angeles public schools, I worked mostly at schools with a lot of Mexican and Central American kids, though the majority were Mexican. And so when they wouldn't pay attention and played around,I would charm them into behaving by warning the most difficult kid "¡No me dés lata!" And even the tough boys would smile, and the girls would giggle that this gabacho maestro would know something so familiar and colloquial.Now, maybe only Liliana and MexicoBob and a couple of others know that expression, but here in Latino Los Angeles, everyone knows it. Los guatemaltecos, los salvadoreños los hondureños y los nicas la aprenden de los mexicanos. anyway, it was fun riffing on that sociolinguistic thing about rising tones at the ends of declarative sentences, which is all valid stuff. But it was irrelevant. Me da un kilo? simply is not the same as dame un kilo. Hitting self on forehead and muttering words in Spanish that are less polite than caramba. Oh well. So it goes. Better to make a mistake and then figure it out than not to try, ¿tengo razón?

December 12, 2007 from the Web.

Team

jpvillanueva says

Hi Denis, Our Colombian and Mexican sources prefer to say "un kilo de manzana" whereas our our Iberian source prefers to say "un kilo de manzanas." It looks like European Spanish (like my American English) follows the "countables" rule, while Latin American Spanish seems to be following a "partitive rule" like French and Italian. My advice? Pick one way and stick to it. If you go somewhere where they correct you, you can switch, or you can tell them you're speaking a different variety. Since my Spanish tends to be more of a Latin American variety in pronunciation and expression, I will use "un kilo de manzana," just to be consistent. This variation will not cause any confusion anywhere. Good luck!

December 12, 2007 from the Web.

rodneyp says

"¡No me dés lata!" Que significa eso? Enlighten us please! :>)

December 13, 2007 from the Web.

yardbird says

Sorry. I forgot to explain. Me olvidé explicarlo. Now, I'm sure someone will correct me xplain if I'm wrong, but I think "lata" literally means a can, as in a can of tomatoes or a can of soup, from the shelf of a mercado. And, so far as I understand, it somehow has come to mean an annoyance or a pain (not physical) in Mexican slang. So, to give someone can is to annoy them and inconvenience them. If I arrive at a bus stop and ask someone else standing there how hlong we will hav to wait, and the person says that a bus just passed but he missed it, and now it will be another 15 minutes until the next one comes, I'm likely to say (if the person is Latino, that is) "Ay, ¡Qué lata!" and thus draw an appreciative laugh. As opposed to saying, in Spanish of course but I'm too lazy to to do the siacritical marks so I'll say it in English, how sad, or what a tragedy. Similarly, if a friend is doing something that annoys you, you might say "don't give me lata," which basically just means don't give me a hard time. Okay? As I said, I'm almost sure that it's exclusively Mexican.

December 13, 2007 from the Web.

Team	lilianamata says No in a lot of parts of Latin America and Spain you also say "no me des lata" December 13, 2007 from the Web.

yardbird says

Liliana, thank you. I really had the idea that it was mostly just a Mexican expression.Do you have any idea where such an expression came from, in the first place? In terms of meaning? How could "can" become "annoyance" or "inconvenience?" thanks.

December 14, 2007 from the Web.

fimperial says

Here's my go at the extra credit: El Super Cazador de Gangas (the super bargain hunter) - catorce dólares, por favor. - CATORCE dólares?! demasiado caro! son esos magicas manzanas de oro? - no, esos son "organic" - pues, vale. muchas gracias. - 14 dollars please. - 14 dollars! too expensive! are these magical apples of gold? - no, these are organic. - oh okay. thank you very much.

December 14, 2007 from the Web.

Team

jpvillanueva says

yardbird, I'm glad to read about your moment of epiphany regarding "me da un kilo de manzana..." The question marks are powerful in Spanish... that's why there are two! Thanks oolung and fimperial for taking the SpanishPod challenge, bonus points for both of you! I'm a little surprised neither of you went for "how much?/this much/here you go/here's your change." I guess we'll save that for another lesson!

December 15, 2007 from the Web.

Team

lilianamata says

Yarbird The phrase "dar lata" comes from listening to annoying instruments like the cymbals, because they come from "hoja de lata" (now called hojalata) which is tin plate. So the constant banging and noise is annoying so this is why. Does this answer your question?

December 16, 2007 from the Web.

yardbird says

Liliana, Yes, that takes care of it completely. You see, the connectionn I've always made in my mind, based on what Mexican friends once explained to me (too sketchily and hastily, it turns out!) was the association not with tin but with the phrase "tin can," referring to something like a can of tomatoes or a can of soup, as I said. Or a can of frijoles rerfritos, of course, como se encuentran en los supermercados norteamericanos. It's too bad I didn't happen also to think of the one metal-enclosed food product we still call by using an old expression that always has seemed to me more British than (North) American: A tin of sardines. See, the association of "food can" with tin has disappeared in the United States. When I was a boy, people spoke more often of tin cans, meaning food cans. But either the vocab changed over time, as expressions will, or they began making food cans out of such different amalgams that the original tin was simply forgotten, except in the case of talking about canned sardines. So "tin" never occurred to me, and thus I could not have guessed that it had to do with clanging, annoying noise. Now,to be realistic, I can protest that the cymbals used in orchestras and also for rock and jazz drumming, aren't anything to do with tin, and never have been. I forgot what the metal mixture is just now, but a quick Google of the brand name zildjian would probably turn up some metallurgical facts, probably involving some percentage of bronze. Also, I don't find cymbals annoying at all. Maybe that just means sudden crashes of cymbals during a quiet passage of symphonic music? But I think that's probably moot. I think "tin" is the actual idea, the idea of very noisy, cheap metal being banged on, with the feeling you'd associate with how the streets of Buenos Aires must sound during a political protest, with everyone from every social class standing on their balconies and beating implements against the bottoms of cooking pots and pans. Although these aren't likely to be made of tin, either, but whatever, as the U.S. slang goes. the U.S. press still likes to use "tin pot dictator" to refer to certain kinds of third World rulers. And a "tinny" sound, we say of something that sounds annoying and cheap. Again, En fín, I guess I have to admit that I'm sorry I never bothered to look up "lata" in a dictionary. My friends made it sound as if it meant a (tin) can, and so that's the image that stayed with me. Don't give me tin. Don't make me feel like you're a little kid banging on some metal junk in the back yard while I'm trying to think clearly or feel peaceful. Whew. I think I've got it. Two points for the allusion.

December 16, 2007 from the Web.

Team	estibalitz says Some other informal synonyms for the expression: No me des la lata. No me des la chapa. No me aburras. No me aburras la oreja. December 18, 2007 from the Web.

darda says

just one lil question.. Why is it 'todo' ?? The apples are feminine, so why isn't it toda? Or is it because it's referring to something in general in which there could be male en feminine words, that in this case it's todo?

December 21, 2007 from the Web.

fudawei says

I'm confused about the "me da" construction in "Me da un kilo de manzana." (Give me a kilo of apples.) I understand that it is "to-me you-give etc." I understand that "da" is the Ud form and "das" woud be the "tu" form. What I don't understand is this: BOTH forms are straightforward present indicative forms of "dar". When asking for something in a situation like this -- wouldn't you use the imperative (ie: da/dé)?

December 21, 2007 from the Web.

fudawei says

What's the name of the type of market Liliana spoke about? el tiangas ???

December 21, 2007 from the Web.

Team

jpvillanueva says

FuDaWei, There are a couple different ways to approach your "me da" question. Another teacher may answer it a different way. Here's my take: In Spanish, the present tense can be used for present actions as well as future actions (e.g., mañana me voy "tomorrow I'm taking off.") So here you have a present-as-future, along with question intonation, you get something like "will you give me a kilo of apples?" Without the question intonation, this construction doesn't work. This is slightly less bossy and more polite than the command "Déme un kilo de manzana." The open-air market Lili was talking about is called "el tianguis" It comes frmo the Náhuatl (Aztec) word tianquiztli 'market,' from the verb tiamiqui 'to sell, to have commerce' (El Diccionario Breve de Mexicanismos, Guido Gómez).

December 21, 2007 from the Web.

Team	jpvillanueva says darda, When the dude says "es todo," it's the expression "that's all." He's not describing the apples at this point; he's just expressing that there will be no other purchases. December 21, 2007 from the Web.

darda says

thanks for clearing that up JP =D

December 24, 2007 from the Web.

ekatpet says

Intento escribir una continuación de diálogo: - Tenemos una acción - tres kilos de banano por precio dos kilos. - Es interesante. Dame eses bananos, por favor. - Gracias. Sorry if I am wrong in everything here. I am very very new in Spanish.

April 11, 2008 from the Web.

martinillo says

JP&darda: I'm also somewhat confused by the grammar of "es todo". Is it just a short way of saying "eso es todo" with "todo" being an adjective for "eso"?

November 16, 2008 from the Web.

martinillo says

After consulting some other sources, I guess "todo" is a pronoun in "es todo" and "eso es todo". O well.

November 16, 2008 from the Web.

Team	jpvillanueva says corrections to PDF June 15, 2009 from the Web.

ewong says

tengo una pregunta:

Me da un kilo de manzana- "give me a kilo of apple"
I received an email from a friend that says: Me da gusto saber de ti - give me pleasure to know of you .

Is this phrase similar to mucho gusto - a pleasure to know you? Gracias!

September 8, 2009 from the Web.

anna8 says

Hi Ewong,

Yeah, I think you're right. Your can think of Mucho gusto as shorthand for:

Me da mucho gusto en conocerte (It gives me much pleasure to make your acquaintance)

So it is similar to:

Me da gusto saber de ti (It gives me pleasure to know of/about you)

Please tell me if I didn't understand what you were asking.

September 8, 2009 from the Web.

donperigo says

ewong

As i understand these things....

me da un kilo de manzanas isnt quite as blunt as "give me a kilo of apples " (which would be déme un kilo de manzanas). its more of a statement "you are giving me a kilo of apples" which avoids using the imperative. the person is suggesting a reality in hopes that the other person will bring it about

the da is the formal you (usted) give in the present tense

however with, me da mucho gusto I would agree with anna8 that the "da" maps to an even more impersonal "it gives" me great pleasure. i.e. its not a command "give me pleasure!" which would be dame mucho gusto

however this is all just way too spooky i swear i was just wondering today whether one could say "it gives me great pleasure" me da mucho placer longhand like this in spanish without sounding weird because thats effectively what me gusta mucho means.

September 8, 2009 from the Web.

ewong says

hola anna8 y donperigo,

gracias por sus ayudas!voy a intentar me expreso en espanol, please bear with me

me pregunto por que ella dijo "Me da gusto saber de ti" o "mucho gusto"porque nos conocemos una a otro durante mucho tiempo.

I understand that"mucho gusto" would be a phrase one say to each other when meeting or introduced for the first time?

September 8, 2009 from the Web.

anna8 says

Ewong,

"Me da gusto saber de ti" quiere decir que ella está contenta de haber escuchado de lo que estás haciendo (It means she is happy to have heard about what you are doing)

Aquí "saber" quiere decir "to know" en el sentido de tener noticias de alguien (Here "saber" means "to know" in the sense of having news about someone)

"Mucho gusto": Por que yo sepa, sólo se dice eso al conocer a alguien y quiere decir "Me da mucho gusto conocerte" (As far as I know, you only say "mucho gusto" when you meet someone/are introduced to someone and it means "I'm pleased to meet you")

Resulta que aunque "saber" y "conocer" se traduzcan como "to know", tienen significados distintos. (So although "saber" and "conocer" can both be translated as "to know", they mean different things.)

¿Te ayudo o hago las cosas aun más confusas? (Am I helping you or am I making things even more confusing?) :-)

September 8, 2009 from the Web.

ewong says

hola anna8,

¿Te ayudo o hago las cosas aun más confusas? -

si, me ayudas mucho y mas claro! los tu explicas muy excelente! Yo los entiendo todos ahora

muchisimas gracias!

September 8, 2009 from the Web.

anna8 says

De nada, Ewong. Fue un placer!

September 8, 2009 from the Web.

kmstandish says

I'm going over the vocabulary on the website and it lists el gramo as a noun (f). Shouldn't it be noun (m)?

September 28, 2009 from the Web.

Team	lilianamata says kmstandish You are right. We will get it fixed. Thanks! September 28, 2009 from the Web.

evandar says

I have no idea what they would say next! 200 pesos, por favor, or something like that. ^^

October 20, 2009 from the Web.

marcobestgen says

Hola. Supongo que despues el cliente preguntara cuanto cuesta o, si la vendedora es muy linda,y si sus maridos no estan cerca, le preguntara su nunero de movil y cuanto cuestan las manzanas.

November 1, 2009 from the Web.

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	Full Lesson (Radio Quality, 5.43mb)
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Hosts:	Liliana, JP
ID:	0023
Difficulty:	Newbie
Published:	December 12, 2007
Topics:	fruit

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Newbie - Going to the Market

Lesson Introduction

Comments (40)

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