Groups - Some surprising similarities...
Martinillo, Donperigo and anyone else who may have been reading Todo Bajo el Cielo and is now tackling La Ciudad de las Bestias -- have you noticed the similarities between the two novels?
In both cases, the main character has just suffered a great loss -- Elvira is recently widowed, Alex's mother is very ill, maybe dying -- and is thrust into an alien environment accompanied by an unsympathetic relative who has been, up to then, an emotional stranger. (Because Todo Bajo el Cielo is aimed at adults, the main character is a middle-aged woman; Las Bestias is aimed at kids so Alex, rather than the aptly named Kate Cold, gets to be the star. Still, I can imagine a young adult version where Fernanda gets top billing -- this would be a great exercise for a writers' workshop: rewrite the first chapter of the novel from Fernanda's perspective.)
Both Elvira and Alex, preternaturally bright, artistically gifted, but culturally constricted, are changed by and come to appreciate the wisdom of their new environment. Both experience new, mystical dimensions of reality. And both duos -- abuela/nieto and tía/sobrina --travel from barely tolerant of each other, to mutually protective, to mutually appreciative, and eventually form a profound emotional connection between them.
Nadia, the amazingly gifted young cultural chameleon of Bestias has her counterpart in Pequeño Tigre in Todo Bajo el Cielo.
In both novels, our protagonists are surrounded by a cast of scoundrels and heroes and it is not always obvious who is who. The characters in Todo Bajo el Cielo are more nuanced, however, as we would expect in an adult novel while those in Las Bestias are drawn in broad strokes. Compare for example the descriptions of the ridiculous pedant Ludovic Leblanc with those of the frequently inebriated Paddy Tichbourne.
Both of these carefully researched books, each rich in cultural, historical and geographical detail, are constructed around an exciting story that grabs and holds on to the reader's attention.
Allende, of course is a great writer and Matilde Asensi, the author of Todo Bajo el Cielo, is not. Asensi writes very well but this book at least is finally quite shallow. It's not an accident that we keep imagining as we read how the scenes would play out in a movie. Allende's prose, even within the constraints of the young adult novel, is enchanting. For me, however, the character of Alex is more Harry Potter than Holden Caulfield; and the spell is broken when he speaks in a less than authentic voice that seems to reflect the author's sensibilities and not his own. Consider his thoughts on his first encounter with Nadia (p63/401):
Alex pensó que si Andrea viera esos adornos, los copiaría de inmediato, y que si Nicole, su hermana menor, viera el monito negro que la chica llevaba sentado sobre un hombro, se moriría de envidia. Alex had the thought that if Andrea saw those adornments, she would copy them immediately, and that if Nicole, his younger sister, saw the little black monkey that the girl was carrying on one shoulder, she would die of envy.
Or his reflections on female beauty (p130/401:
Ahora comparaba el cuerpo de su abuela -- enjuto, lleno de nudos, la piel cuarteada-- con las suaves curvas doradas de la doctora Omayra Torres, quien usaba un discreto traje de baño negro, y con la gracia todavía infantil de Nadia. Consideró cómo cambia el cuerpo en las diferentes edades y decidió que las tres mujeres, a su manera, eran igualmente hermosas. Now he compared his grandmother's body -- thin, lumpy, the skin chapped -- with the smooth golden curves of Dr. Omayra Torres, who was wearing a discreet black swimsuit, and with Nadia's still child-like grace. He considered how the body changes at different ages and he decided that the three women, in their own way, were equally beautiful.
Both of these passages stopped me dead in my tracks as I was reading because they seemed so out of place, so out of character for our adolescent protagonist. But I'm still reading and maybe I will feel differently further along in the novel...
in the Group Books .
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I bought La Ciudad de las Bestias and Todo Bajo el Cielo as well as Butt/Benjamin (thanks Steve) however, I find I am not near as nimble nor word wise as present company, so it is slow slogging into the Amazon Jungle.
Compré La Ciudad de las Bestias y Todo Bajo el Cielo, así como Butt / Benjamin (gracias Steve), sin embargo, creo que no estoy cerca de ágil ni me sé los cuantos de palabras como mis compañeros actuales aqui, por lo que es lento y arduo camino en la selva amazónica.
Correcciones de mi intenta en español son apreciadas.
stevestrv have your cassettes not arrived yet ? im tempted to take that route myself as i think my listening needs more work than my reading
Uso una copia de ingés para referencia casi cada paso del camino. Con el libro en inglés no necesito buscar cada palabra en el diccionario. A veces sé lo que estoy leyendo y a veces no. Aprendo un montón de vocabulario, empezo reconocer las raices de algunas palabras, y mucho más.
I use an English copy for reference almost every step of the way. Its easier than looking up every word in the dictionary. Sometimes I know what I am reading and sometimes I don't. I'm learning a lot of vocabulary, recognizing word stems, and much more.
I generally read without looking things up I try to guess the meaning of the many words i dont know from context, and from similarities to words i do know. occasionally i run badly aground and periods where i have to look up every other word for a while but when im on a run its quite magical and i have brief periods, perhaps even a whole page where i forget im reading spanish. i particularly enjoyed the passage about the armadillos the flying saucer and the buckets of custard.
I like the idea of having the english translation as well. Im trying to persuade my sister to suggest "everything under the sky" for her book club as im far too tight to buy 2 copies of the same book :-)
donperigo
I guess Amazon.com is selling the casseettes for bookling.com. I received an email form bookling.com on 11/3 saying that they had my order but I have not received the cassettes yet.
Kikuyu donperigo
Thank you for your response. I like Kikuyu’s idea of reading the book in English at the same time. This way you can practice guessing at words you don’t know but you will not get too lost.
Nor have I received my cassettes DonPerigo.
Reading this makes me wonder whether there might be a bit of inter-latin rivalry . . .
Chilean Allende seems to make a rather disparaging remark about mexican rubber tortillas . . .
Do you suppose Señor Tabasco will demonstrate?
Cobre, I don't think Allende is dissing Mexican tortillas so much as Mr. Cold's pancake making skills. Tortillas aren't rubbery; Mr. Cold's pancakes are. If you want to know what they are like, imagine a tortilla made of rubber. (p2/401)
John Cold no era exactamente buen cocinero: sólo sabía hacer panqueques y le quedaban como tortillas mexicanas de caucho. John Cold wasn't exactly a good cook: he only knew how to make pancakes and (for him) they turned out like Mexican tortillas made of rubber (or: rubbery Mexican tortillas)
So I don't think Chef Tabasco has to get upset -- in fact he'll have enough trouble defending his sentimental longings for magdalenas (de Bimbo no less) -- Spanishpod's answer to Proust and his madeleines:-)
by the way, I bought both my English & Spanish version on Amazon (used an in good condition) for $4.50 each. That included shipping.
kikuyu
Thanks I will try to get the same deal
Stevestrv asked: How do you guys read it?
Like Donperigo, I try to bounce along using context to figure out what unfamiliar words mean. And like Donperigo, I'm sure there are times I only think I know what's going on. So what? We're not in school, nobody's going to test us on this stuff. And Todo Bajo el Cielo isn't holy scripture. It's ok to hum the tune and get the words wrong.
But let me tell you about a personal hurdle I had to overcome: I never liked to write in my books; if I wanted to take notes, I'd put them in a separate notebook or journal but I always felt that the book itself had to be left pristine for the next reader. So I found it incredibly liberating when I decided to allow myself to scribble all over these Spanish language books, reasoning that no one else was likely to look at them and they weren't so much books as they were workbooks.
So I read along, pen in hand, and I underline words I don't know, jot questions to myself in the margins, and when I'm in the mood, I page back and look up some of the words.
Every now and then there's a passage that seems so interesting that I want to be sure I really understand every word: then I'll slow down, dictionary in hand, and pick it apart.
Kikuyu, that sounds like a good strategy you've developed -- basically you create your own bilingual edition and then you can enjoy the flow of the language without agonizing over unfamiliar words or structures.
I think audiobooks are another great way to immerse yourself in the language.
So how do I read? I just sort of dance along, picking and choosing, sometimes reading very slowly and carefully and other times skimming the surface.
I will tell you, though, that with both of these books, the reading got a lot easier beyond the first several pages. Authors tend to repeat themselves themselves so that structure you struggled with or the word you didn't know becomes an old friend the third or fourth time you meet up with it.
Anna8
Thank you. I will start writing in my books as well and I hope the book gets easier.
This being my first read in Spanish, I see that it is all about the imperfect. The use of the imperfect tense. I have noticed about a dozen instances of the use of the imperfect subjunctive within the first 17 pages. All have the usual subjunctive triggers that we have been learning about except the following:
p 5/401:
Ya no tenía edad para eso, a los doce años debiera estar interesada en los chicos o en perforarse las orejas, suponía el.
She was too old for that. At twelve, she should be interested in boys, or piercing her ears, he supposed.
p17/401.
No, decidiió, no podía perder la cabeza sólo porque su abuela se atrasara un poco;
No, he decided, he couldn't lose his head just because his grandmother was a little late.
I sound like a grammar nerd with these observations don't I?
Also this expression using "donde" to describe (to Kate's place) got my attention, p.12/401
No es justo que me mandes donde Kate como si yo fuera un paquete.
Its not fair that you ship me off to Kate as if I were some package or something.
Kikuyu,
There's no shame in being a grammar nerd, no shame at all... jajaja
Yes, this book is a festival of the imperfecto sprinkled liberally with -- bam! -- a pretérito!
I didn't even notice the "donde Kate." Very nice. It's like "chez Kate" in French or "da Kate" in Italian.
Stevestrv,
¡Echale ganas!
Kikuyu: I had no idea that "donde" could be used this way. In particular, this "donde" is not even an adverb, but a preposition (according to the diccionario de la RAE it is a preposition that means "en casa de" or "en el sitio de") but I never saw "donde" in one of the lists of Spanish prepositions. Great find!
(I just checked the "diccionario panhispánico de dudas" of the RAE and it says that this is a colloquial use of "donde"; but the normal dictionary of the RAE doesn't mention any restriction; thus, it seems to be acceptable in written language but might be more common in spoken language.)
I liked this line: p.14/401
¿Sabes cuáles son los caracteres chinos para escribir crisis? Peligro + oportunidad.
Do you know what the chinese characters are to write the word crisis? Danger + opportunity
危机
kikuyu,
mi novia. . .
Oh well, long day and tired.
there is another character set that my friend Chris has adopted as her "Chop" It means, opportunity in the midst of crisis.
It is in another computer that I cannot reach at this instant. but the jest of the image is that the active character slices the other two apart with a very strong vertical, kind of like some sort of seize the moment thing,
cobre,
It sounds like you know a little about chinese characters. That's really cool!
Did I fool you guys into thinking that I know a little bit of Chinese? I must admit that I googled the word crisis and pasted it here.
He encontrado el segundo capítulo sencillo, menos todo las palabras que tuve que buscar. Eran un par de expresiones que pensé que valen mencionar.
I found the second chapter straight-forward except for all of the words that I had to look up.
There were a couple of expressions that I thought were worth mentioning:
p.15/401
No no puedo ponerme en ese caso, debo tener pensamientos positivos, mi mamá sanará, murmuró, una y otra vez durante el largo viaje.
No, I'm not going to be like that, I have to have positive thoughts, my mother will get better, he said to himself over and over during the long trip.
p.23
En nada se distinguía él, sus únicos talentos eran escalar montañas y tocar la flauta, pero ninguna chica con dos dedos de frente se interesaba en cerros o flautas.
There was nothing special about him; his only talents were climbing mountains and playing the flute, but no girl with an ounce of sense was going to be interested in hills and flutes.
p.35
quien boca tiene, Roma llega, era uno de los axiomas de Kate Cold.
Kate liked to say, where there is a will there is a way.
Well, I think "querer es poder" for "where there is a will there is a way" is a much more straight-forward way of saying it.
Kikuyu,
Quien boca tiene, Roma llega Who has a mouth, gets to Rome.
¿Sera relacionado con la lección "Directions"? O sea, hay que saber pedirse ayuda para conseguir su meta. I wonder if it's related to the lesson "Directions." That is, you have to know how to ask for help to achieve your goal.
¿Y sabes qué? Resulta que los dos talentos de Alex Cold van a ser muy significativos... And you know what? It turns out that Alex Cold's two talents are going to be very significant...
Anna8, me gusta como tu verlo. Es verdad que tienes que preguntar si quieres las respuestas.
My cassettes have just arrived.
So did mine, the outside box had been opened. No idea if that was inspection, or mis'delivered mail. I'd like to think the Gov would have been more carefull about closing the package though. Now to find a working cassette player ...
Well, I finally finished ángeles y demonios by Dan Brown. Very difficult read. Very long, and very boring at times. Easily could have cut out 250 pages of pure filler. I highly don't recommend it! lol
Read the first chapter tonight of this one so tomorrow I'll get into la excéntrica abuela.
I've got a little grammar here that I'm looking at:
pg.65/401
Al comienzo Alex,turbado, nose atrevía a mirar los senos de las mujeres, pero rápidamente se le acostumbró la vista y a los cinco minutos dejaron de llamarle la atención.
At first, Alex was embarassed, not daring to look at the women's breasts, but he quickly became accustomed to the sight and after five minutes didn't even notice them.
o.k. so I'm just trying to get the se+le construction. Would you say that this falls into the category of unplanned occurrences?
I think there are more verbs that fall into this category than the few standard ones that I know such as:
acabársele, caérsele, ocurrírsele,
olvidársele,perdérsele,quedársele,rompérsele
I'm looking in the New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish pg.377 26.6
Decidí que no es siempre muy facíl distinguir entre lo, la, le, & les. Entonces eso es la respuesta a mi propia pregunta. Este asunto es demasiado confuso.
Hi Kikuyu,
I'm glad you asked about this construction because I still find it hard to wrap my mind around it. Here's an explanation I put together based on some hard core googling:
You can think of this construction as "No-fault se". It is used, as you said, to talk about unplanned or accidental occurrences or events in which a person is subjected to an occurrence outside his/her control:
ex: Perdí las llaves de mi casa / Se me perdieron las llaves de mi casa.
Both of these sentences mean, loosely, "I lost my house keys," but in the first "I" take responsibility; in the second, well the keys got lost on me (don't ask me how it happened...)
Forming the no-fault se construction: To identify to whom the event occurred, use the pronoun se followed by an indirect object (me, te, le, nos, os, les): A Jose se le rompió el despertador. (Jose's alarm clock broke)
(a+noun/pronoun)+ se+indirect obj pron+verb+subj
(A mí) se me olvidaron las gafas. (The glasses forgot themselves on me / I forgot my glasses)
(A Juan) se le cayó el vaso. (The glass fell out of Juan's hands /Juan dropped the glass)
(A nosotros) se nos acabó el tiempo. (Our time was up/we ran out of time)
(A Alex) se le acostumbró la vista...(The sight became ordinary for Alex, he wasn't trying, it just happened/ Alex got used to the sight)
Note:
1. The verbs are always conjugated in the third person singular or plural.
2. The verbs are normally in the preterite.
3. Las gafas, el vaso, el tiempo and la vista serve as the grammatical subjects of the sentences.
4. ***The se is invariable; only the indirect personal object pronoun changes (here me, le, nos, le)
Here are other verbs I can across that can take this construction (I suspect the list is very long):
apagar (the lights went out on them), descomponer (the car broke down on me), quemar, estallar, desfilar, desplumar (to lose one's feathers: Al gallo se le desplumaron todas las plumas), derretir, partir (when it means to split or break), ensuciar, morir (a la enfermera se le murió el paciente)
Ok, so I hope this is correct. Guys --(Martinillo, Hypersport, are you listening?)I'm counting on you to tell me if I have blundered here.
Anna8,
Thank you for helping me look at this. I really like your explanation of how Alex just got used to the sight without trying. It just happened. And that is how it fits into this category of unintentional occurrences.
And now I know that the list of verbs that can take this form is much greater than I would have ever guessed. It seems that the more we learn, the more we find out how much there is to learn.
Muchas gracias!
kikuyu&anna8: Very well explained! In fact, more detailed than my grammar book, which speaks in more general terms about this construction, i.e., it doesn't restrict it to certain verbs nor tenses. The examples given by my book are (with my translations to English):
No se me pasa la fiebre. - The(/my) fever doesn't go away.
Ya se le pasará el enojo. - The(/his/her) anger will probably pass by.
No se me ocurre nada, ¿ya a ti? - Nothing occurs to me, what about you?
Se me olvidó. - I forgot it.
Se le cayó el vaso. - The glass fell out of his/her hands.
One more comment: the sequence "se + indirect object pronoun" is pretty special because the usual sequence is "indirect object pronoun + direct object pronoun": "doy la cosa a él" -> "se la doy". Thus, the more common sequences are "se lo(s)" or "se la(s)". Whenever you see "se le(s)" you know to pay special attention because it might be a "not-fault se construction". (Well, it also might be a passive construction with se or a leismo (i.e. the le may actually mean lo), but in any case it's something special! :)
Gracias Martinillo! Tus ejemplos con "pasarse" son muy buenos también.
Martinillo,
Great point about the other tenses -- the no-fault se construction can of course happen in any tense, but I think I've seen it most commonly in the preterite. This makes sense: Bam! It happened! Don't blame me!
It's true that even though it's a different animal, the no-fault se looks just like the indirect object personal pronoun se. You can only tell them apart by the company they keep:
¿Le dijiste la verdad a su novia? Se la dijiste?
Theoretically, se le could be se lo/se la in disguise, but practically this is unlikely to cause confusion because leismo only happens when the direct object is a person or pet. In contrast, the grammatical subject of the no-fault se structure is (never?) a person.
In any case, I like your conclusion: When you see se le/ se les, ¡ojo!
Hey guys, nice job!
Anna8 and Kikuyu, you guys are digging deep, and getting it! That kind of effort sticks, keep it up!
Martinillo, those are good points too. Something to watch out for regarding the se lo, se la, etc, at least when talking to Mexicans...
let's say for example that you have two brothers that share a bicycle that is in need of repairs, and your mom asks you if you fixed it for them....
We know how to say sí, se la arreglé. Se being the brothers and la being the bicycle. However....lots of times I will here Mexicans use los or las even when the direct object is singular, like in this case with the bike.
I've asked guys about this, and I've gotten the answer "because you're talking to ellos" which we know doesn't matter, we've already used se for ellos. It seems that people just associate the direct object (singular or plural) lots of times with the indirect object and when the indirect object is 2 or more people (se) they just follow suit with the direct object and make it plural too.
It's one of those things that you get use to after hearing it for a while, no big deal. But as a learner, the first few times you hear that, the red flag goes up, and you question what you're hearing.
As far as the book goes, wow, I have to admit I haven't been reading it! I was in the bookstore the other day, and I saw the new one from John Grisham and it was too tempting, so I'm getting into that one now, La Apelación.
Hypersport, Gracias es bueno que me hayas dicho esto acerca de los mexicanos diciendo "se los, se las" incluso cuando los objetos directos son singulares. Voy a Mexico en enero por dos semanas y voy a ser "todos oídos". Espero que pueda notar esos tipos de detalles.
Claro que Grisham sería demasiado tentador para tí. No estoy lista para ese nivel de leer. Pero algún día.
Its good that you have told me this about how the Mexicans say "se los, se las" even when the direct objects are singular. I'm going to Mexico in January for two weeks and I'm going to be "all ears". I hope that I will be able to notice those sorts of details.
Of course Grisham would be too tempting for you. I'm not ready for that level of reading yet, but someday.
Gracias Hypersport por tu comentario. Sabes, yo no sabía de ese fenómeno de sustituir "los" o "las" por "la" pero como Kikuyu, voy a estar escuchando... [Y como tú Kikuyu, voy a viajar a México en enero -- voy a Cuernavaca. ¿A dónde vas tú?] Thanks for your comment Hypersport. You know, I wasn't aware of that phenomenon of substituting "los" or "las" for "la" but like Kikuyu, I'll start listening for it... [and like you Kikuyu, I'm going to travel to Mexico in January -- I'm going to Cuernavaca. Where are you going?]
Resulta que a Allende le encanta el "no fault se" -- lo usa en todos tiempos y modos. También le gusta el uso de "donde" como preposición ["donde Kate"]. De eso yo no había dado cuenta antes de que tu me enseñaras, Kikuyu. ¡Gracias! It turns out that Allende really likes the no-fault se -- she uses it in every tense and mood. She also likes using "donde" as a preposition [donde Kate]. I hadn't noticed that before you pointed it out, Kikuyu. Thanks!
Bueno, voy a cambiar de tema -- Aquí están unas frases interesantes con la palabra "gente": Ok, I'm going to change the subject -- Here are a couple of interesting sentences with the word "gente":
p.43/401 ¿Cuánta gente ha matado? -- inquirió Alex cada vez más inquieto. How many people has he killed? -- asked Alex, increasingly uneasy.
Todo Bajo el Cielo, p.435 Las gentes llevaban orejeras velludas y caminaban enfundadas en unos enormes abrigos de piel... [The] people were wearing fluffy earmuffs and were walking around wrapped in enormous fur coats
Se me hace que en el primer caso la palabra "personas" habría sido más natural [i.e. ¿Cuántas personas ha matado?]... o por lo menos, eso es lo que yo habría dicho. It seems to me that in the first case the word "personas" would have been more natural... or at least, that's what I would have said.
Y en el segundo, yo habría dicho "La gente" en lugar de "las gentes." And in the second one, I would have said "la gente" instead of "las gentes".
Parece que hay distintas maneras de usar la palabra "gente", ¿no? It seems there are different ways of using the word "gente", aren't there?
perhaps the chinese, the tibetans, and the europeans are all wrapped in furs.
couldn't tell you, I haven't read that book and this stupid windows keyboard refuses to shift to spanish today, so you don't get any.
¿Tú crees, Cobre? A lo mejor, tienes razón. You think so, Cobre? Maybe you're right.
¡Pero que cascarrabias te ves! ¿Qué te pasa? But you sound like such a grouch! (Pues, la verdad no te ves nada de cascarrabias -- es que yo por mucho tiempo andaba buscando una oportunidad de usar la palabra "cascarrabias." (Well, the truth is you don't seem grouchy at all -- it's just that for a long time I've been looking for an opportunity to use the word "cascarrabias." La encontré cuando estaba buscando la traducción de "curmudgeon"; me encanta porque no tiene género. No puedo ser "curmudgeon" pero yo sí podría ser "cascarrabias.") I found it when I was looking for the translation of "curmudgeon"; I love it because it's not gender-specific. I can't be a "curmudgeon" but I can surely be a "cascarrabias.")
Hola anna8, qué interesante que tu hayas notado este uso de "gente" por los escritores. Porque recuerdo que Lili nos dijo muy explicitamente en la lección La Guelaguetza(cerca 8:58) que muchas dicen "qué gentes!" y es incorrecto decir lo. Es español mal hablado.
How interesting that you noticed this use of "gente" by both writers, because I remember that Lili specifically told us in the "Guelaguetza" lesson that many people say "que gentes" and that it is incorrect. It is poorly spoken spanish.
Empecé la secuela de Ciudad de las Bestias se llama el Reino del Dragón de Oro. Estoy encontrando que es mucho más fácil leer ahora que eso es mí segundo libro en español(yeeh!) La historía lleva a cabo en los Himalayas en Bhutan (un país que me fascina mucho). Tengo que decir que aunque es escrito para los jovenes, me mantiene interesada. Me siento que pocitito a pocitito empiezo a pensar en español.
I started the sequel to City of Beasts, its called Kingdom of the Golden Dragon. I am finding that it is much easier to read now that this is my second book in spanish. The story takes place in the Himalayas in Bhutan ( a place that I find fascinating) I have to say that although it is written for teenagers, it keeps my interest. I feel that little by little I am starting to think in spanish.
Hablando de "no fault se" aquí tienes otro ejemplo de El Reino del Dragón pg.51/420
Speaking of the "no fault se" here is another example that I found in The Kingdom of the Golden Dragon.
Cuando partieron de viaje al Amazonas, su nieto era un chiquillo mimado y cuando volvieron, poco más tarde, estaba convertido en un hombre. Alexander-o Jaguar, como se le habia puesto en la cabeza que debía llamarlo -se había portado como un valiente, era justo reconocerlo
When they had left for their trip to the Amazon, her grandson had been a cottled little boy-or a spoiled brat, as she called him-but by the time they returned, he had become a man. Alexander-or Jaguar as he had got it in his head he wanted to be called-had been very brave; in all fairness she had to admit that. She was proud of him.
By the way, I still have to use a copy in english for reference. Its my security blanket :)
Voy a Xalapa y San Cristobal de las Casas en enero. Tengo muchas ganas de hacer el viaje.
I'm going to Xalapa and San Cristobal de las Casas in January. I am really looking forward to this trip.
Hmmmm,
In case any of you were wondering how they manage to post a version of Allende's published work on line, I am starting to understand.
Copyright works up to a certain percentage of change.
Anna8 noted the obvious name change from Cold to Coid.
I decided to do a study of vocabulary, when words were first introduced and how often they were used in the book.
I took the pdf and pasted it into a wordprocessing document and started counting spellings. While checking out an accidental double copy of one page from the pdf, I noticed that not only had Cold>>Coid throughout the book but that on page 7-410 " En el centro" had been changed to "Al centro,"
and that some bad formating at the printers ( for example on page 25/401 second paragraph the double<< and >> are rendered as long - to indicate quote in the pdf) has been corrected.
That and another preposition on page 27/401 has been changed 3/4 of the way down the page the book reads
"sobre el cáncer de pul-
món y otras"
and the pdf reads
"sobre el cáncer al pulmón y otras"
I suspect that the preposition changes and the name change must reach the "legal" threshold for new work.
cobre.
Hi all,
I decided to finish a vocabulary list for chapter 1 and go get a life for a while.
As Anna8 noted authors tend to use the same stuff over and over.
There are 83,000 some words in Ciudad de las Bestias.
Nearly 65 percent of them are in the first chapter, or rather the vocabulary found in the first chapter accounts for 65 percent of the word spellings found throughout the book.
There are just over 1200 unique spellings in chapter 1
These include things like abuela, abluelas, abluelo
each variant is counted separate
Here is an html copy of the list, nothing is defined, look em up and set them in YOUR head.
http://www.mettleworks.com/pods/chapt1vocab.html
Hola Cobre,
Thats interesting about the copyright.
The vocabulary list is quite daunting, but don't let it scare you away. Repetition is everything when learning new words.
Visité la selva amazonicas por un video en español de BBC.
Una pregunta amigos.
I do not understand this sentence.
Kate comentó entre dientes que a Leblanc sólo le faltaba un tigre muerto para apoyar el pie. pp49/401
Kate hissed that Lelanc - - - - - and there I fear I am lost as to the meaning.
only he lost a tiger killed by applying the foot. - - - say what???
he by himself felled killed a tiger by kicking it. (yeah right, dan'l boone)
Hola Cobre,
Lo entiendo así: Kate muttered that the only thing Leblanc was missing was a dead tiger to rest his foot on.
That is, all he needed to complete the cliched image of the "Great White Hunter" was for him to pose with one foot resting on a dead tiger.
¿cómo te parece?
Of course . . . it seems so obvious now that you have pointed it out.
¡Gracias!
¡Hola a todos! Hello everyone!
Ayer empecé a leer el libro. Mejor tarde que nunca, ¿no? :) Yesterday I started to read the book. Better late than never, right?
Lo que más llamó mi atención fueron los errores tipograficos, por ejemplo "corrrespondido" en lugar de "correspondido" (corresponding) en la página 23/401, "cilización" en lugar de "civilización" (civilization) en la página 52/401 y "villorios" en lugar de "villorrios" (villages) en la página 61/401. What called my attention most were the typos, for example ...
Otra cosa que siempre me parece interesante es una preposición que sucede otra, por ejemplo en esta frase: "Alex vio a varios individuos sin pelo ni dientes, medio ciegos, con erupciones en la piel, gesticulando y hablando solos; eran mineros a quienes el mercurio había trastornado y estaban muriéndose de a poco." Another thing that always is interesting to me is a preposition that follows another one, for example in this sentence: "Alex saw various individuals without hair nor teeth, half blind, with rash on the skin, gesticulating and talking to themselves; they were miners whom the mercury had deranged and who were dying bit by bit."
También me di cuenta que hay muchas palabras que gustan mucho a Allende y que yo no sabía, por ejemplo "bulto" (bundle), "culebra" (snake), "bicho" (small animal), "oleada" (wave), "alegar" (to allege), "vacilar" (to hesitate), "agregar" (to add), "jactar" (to boast), "cerro" (hill), "arrastrar" (to drag), "amarrar" (to tie up), "acudir" (to go) etc. I also realized that there are many words that Allende likes very much and which I didn't know, for example ...
Pero la palabra que más me gusta (por el sonido) es: "quisquilloso" (fastidious). But the word the I like most (because of the sound) is "quisquilloso" (fastidious).
El proverbio en la página 35/401: "quien boca tiene, a Roma llega" es muy similar a un proverbio chino que me ha dicho una vez una estudiante china: "el camino pasa por la boca". Me parece interesante que no hay un proverbio correspondiente en alemán. ¿Hay uno en inglés? The proverb on page 35/401: "who has a mouth, will get to Rome" is very similar to a proverb that a chinese student told me once: "the way passes through the mouth". It's interesting that there is no corresponding proverb in German. Is there one in English?
Cobre, pero ¿pa' qué? (Ultimamente eso ha sido mi manera preferida de decir "de nada") It was nothing, Cobre (Lately that has been my favorite way to say 'you're welcome') :)
Hola Martinillo,
Qué lector atento eres -- yo ni siquiera había dado cuenta de esos errores. What an attentive reader you are -- I hadn't even noticed those mistakes.
Es chistoso, en tu lista de palabras nuevas, formas de 'vacilar' y 'amarrar' -- vacile y amarrado -- aparecen en el 'Del Taco al Tango' más reciente sobre Ecuador para hablar de noviazgo. It's funny, in your list of new words, forms of 'vacilar' and 'amarrar' -- vacile and amarrado -- appear in the most recent Del Taco al Tango about Ecuador
Yo habría dicho que no existiera en inglés un proverbio equivalente a: Quien boca tiene, a Roma llega... I would have said that there wasn't an English proverb equivalent to: Who has a mouth gets to Rome.
...pero encontré aquí: Ask and you shall receive. ...but here I found: Ask and you shall receive.
Creo que se sirve, ¿no? I think it works, no?
¡Hola anna8!
No creo que sea particularmente atento. La verdad es que a menudo tengo que corregir textos en mi trabajo, por eso ya no puedo evitar esa forma de atención. :) I don't think that I'm particularly attentive. The truth is that I often have to correct texts in my work; because of that I cannot avoid that form of attention.
El proverbio "Ask and you shall receive." es mucho más general, ¿no? Puedes pedir agua, libertad, salvación, etc. A veces preguntar por el camino es más difícil, especialmente para los hombres porque tienen que admitir que se han perdido. :) The saying "Ask and you shall receive." is more general, isn't it? You can ask for water, liberty, salvation, etc. At times it's more difficult to ask for the way, especially for men because they have to admit that they got lost. :)
Al parecer, lo contrario de los japoneses, - El clavo que se levanta se golpeado abajo.
It would seem the opposite of the Japanese, - The nail that stands up shall be beaten down.
Speaking and advancing . . .
I started trying to free associate that back to some sort of saying and got mired in Tom Lehrer.
The secret of my success in mathematics.
¡Hola!
Sólo quiero mencionar que la idea de la flauta de Alex (o de su abuelo) me gusta mucho porque siempre pienso en las imágenes de la pelicula "Mission" con Jeremy Irons y la música de Ennio Morricone. Estoy casi seguro que Isabel Allende también pensó en esa pelicula cuando escribí las escenas con la flauta en la selva.
Hi, I just wanted to mention that I like the idea of the flute of Alex (or of his grandfather) very much because I always have to think of the images of the movie "Mission" with Jeremy Irons and the music of Ennio Morricone. I'm almost sure that Isabel Allende also thought of this movie when she wrote the scenes with the fute in the jungle.
Nice, I wonder what he is using for reeds....